“we will drive the Jews into the sea” (there is controversy as to whether any Arab ever said such a thing)
I’ve been thinking about this since you posted it. I’m amazed. That phrase has been used all over the Arab world since before 1948. It HAS been said, and continues to be said. If you haven’t heard it, it hasn’t been said?
Palestinian leaders say one thing in English, and something different in Arabic. They speak to their audience. Just like a position taken by an American politician in public is often not the same position expressed by the same politician at a private dinner-the difference being that if we see the recordings of both events we can hear that difference since we understand the language. But most of the people in the English speaking audience don’t understand Arabic and take the English version as truth.
Yes, I’m concerned for the innocent. Apparently, that doesn’t matter. My taxes pay for bombs that have been killing children all over the world for a long time.
But it’s not he says/she says here. It’s deeper than that. And it’s been going on forever. Everywhere. There is no peace for the Jews in this world.
Transfer of abuse is everything you said. But it doesn’t apply here.
I don't doubt those words, or worse, have been spoken by Arab people...and I don't doubt that many feel it without saying it.
This situation in Israel causes a lot of cognitive dissonance for me. On one hand I feel that there is no justification for killing in this way, from either perspective, certainly no justification for killing children under any circumstance. On the other hand I feel humans are compelled to defend themselves, to eradicate potential threat, and to do whatever is necessary to protect themselves. One thing I feel certain of though, even though I doubt if I myself could adhere to this tenet, I do believe human beings are above revenge and vengeance killing. I understand it, but I cannot believe it has a purpose. There needs to be other ways than killing.
I think the situation over there is so complex it is impossible to tell what exactly should be done to stop this hate, whether one side has justification for hate or not.
I am sorry if my article offended you in any way...I was pretty sure it would for some people...there is no stance on this issue that will not cause upset with someone.
My idea was just that, an idea, it could be utterly wrong. However, even after several weeks of reading and listening I still believe there is an unconscious "thing" going on here.
The US plays both sides. Military bases in countries that are supposedly enemies-Cuba, Syria, Iraq. Qatar has a huge American military base and branches of American universities, yet they sponsor Hamas. American “military advisors” are in Ukraine and Israel. Like they were in Korea and Vietnam.
War is a business. It has nothing to do with right and wrong. I think that the provocation is deliberate, with outside governments promising protection to those who act, and then abandoning them. All an act. Why would anybody take sides in something like that? We watch and wonder about the inhumanity. And pray for help.
There is nothing more exciting, fun, invigorating, enjoyable, etc, for nations to engage in war. Tons of money, power wielding, fun boy stuff...like a video game to them.
Never buy any of the fake tears, "up all night worrying about the people who are suffering"...it is all bullshit. This is the ultimate for world leaders...there have been a few that may not have been as seduced by it as most are, I don't know, maybe. But for the majority war has always been the primary reason why people want to rule a country.
And the primary way they continue to rule a country. Afraid of losing the next election? Start a war. It’s standard psychology that people are afraid to change leaders while they perceive themselves to be in danger. But, then, you know that Lol
Your theory seems to be bang on. IMOO it goes back further, to Khazaria, when they were so nasty they were taken to task by surrounding countries and made to adopt a religion (probably hoping this would calm the beast). They chose Jewish as being the least restrictive to their way of life. Then they swore vengeance on the ones who forced them, dissed them or otherwise tried to get them to place nice. It happened to be Russia and it’s satellites, not to mention the surrounding muslim/arab/asian/everyone else countries. Oh the poor Ashkenazi jews felt harassed and ostracized so they “went forth and multiplied”, infiltrating all levels of govt/banking in multiple countries. In the “conspiracy” world they’re called the Khazarian mafia. What they went about is similar to the family code of honour type defence and revenge - globally.
About 80% of today’s jewish people around the world are said to be Ashkenazi. The Talmud type are said to be an offshoot, the dark side if you will. And the goyim, all the rest of us, are as cattle to be used and slaughtered.
Generational abuse begetting abuse? Ayup, I think so. Justified? Depends on who you ask. And where/when does it stop?
Disclaimer: I am anti- anyone who bombs/kills another. I don’t care what colour/race/religion. And I do not believe any of it is justified.
Absolutely, right on brother…no one is innocent in this situation…and in all situations like this…no, that’s not true, there are lots of innocent people…the ones doing ANY killing are not innocent…the many that are just trying to live decent lives but get killed for just being there…they are innocent. And all children are innocent…
I thought the Russians chose Christianity over Islam and Judaism, the other choices, because Christians do not require circumcision…No kidding!
Russia did but the Khazars chose Judaism. Russia was the main cop on the beat at the time who did the most to bring the Khazars under control. Tis why they are under the gun more. The Khazars want death to all slavs and slavic cousins for it.
And as far as I know, the Khazars did not do circumcision. They went Jewish in name only. Aaand stole the names and properties of all they killed.
Khazars today are mostly the zionists, different from the everyday Jews.
I was one who wasn't going to reply until you posed this question. Don't know if I'm typical but here's my reasons.
I was put off by your characterization of Israeli retaliation against attacks as "transfer of abuse". I see transfer of abuse as, for example, an abused child being prone to abuse others later who have no connection to the abuse he suffered. Israel never seems to lash out until provoked by an attack that hurts them in the moment. Of course there will be collateral damage, innocents will suffer. War is always like that. To avoid collateral damage by refusing to retaliate means suicide. IOW, I don't see the parallel at all.
Of course Israel responds disproportionately. They must. Their enemies would willingly trade a million lives of their own for a million Israeli lives because they outnumber Israelis many times over and have little value for life. They'd love to play the game of proportional response since they could eradicate Israel in short order while hardly noticing a reduction in their own population.
It's complicated. Many think Jews are responsible for many of the ills of the world. Best i can tell, they are over-represented in predatory occupations like finance and banking (those businesses are necessary to modern society but no denying they are often predatory). I consider that a separate issue. I don't see Israel attacking anyone until attacked. I expect them to defend themselves vigorously if attacked. Any prior history, or practices by Soros, Bourla, et al doesn't change that. It seems to me many who want Israel to stand down are biased against it because of Jewish bad actors. Maybe that's OK, it's complicated (to repeat).
I have my opinions but they're not fully informed so I thought I'd stay out of it. Since I could easily be dead wrong best not comment.
Here's the #1 reason I wasn't going to reply. I like your Substack and what you write almost always. I didn't feel like voicing this disagreement. It's OK to disagree on some things. Thought I'd let it go, until you actively solicited. My opinions aren't fully informed anyway, as I said earlier. Only stating them because you specifically asked.
That makes perfect sense. I actually feel the same way, but was compelled to post what I posted...it is one little idea that doesn't really "take sides" but is an attempt to understand the hatred...it is indeed a very complex situation...the simple part is as you said, none of it is justified, either way.
I downloaded and read Shahak's book via Unz's site, and - like him - I was profoundly shocked at what I read.
I've concluded much of Talmudic Judaism is essentially a cluster b pathology:
Narcissism: we are gods chosen people
Machiavellianism: it's a mitzvah to deceive a gentile
Psychopathy: a Jewish life is worth more than a gentile
You will no doubt be aghast at these statements, but I urge you to follow, read and learn. Understanding the real nature of things gives us agency.
None of the above BTW is to justify hamas, extreme Islam etc, only to say that by and large very few people understand the deeply embedded culture of hatred at the heart of Talmudic Judaism.
Much as the Jews were indeed treated terribly by nazi Germany amongst many societies, those crimes have been used as camouflage for a particularly toxic religious ideology which the ME conflicts will never be resolved without confronting.
Thank you for this...no, I am not aghast at your statements. I've heard/read this before. But I would have to say Islam is not much different, if not worse (do you not think so?)...they also are "chosen" and anyone outside of their religion, the infidels, should be eliminated (not all Muslims believe this of course).
The difference, in my humble basically uninformed opinion, is that the Jews have money, and they have a privileged spot in the global setting as typically wealthy, well situated in the world's business and banking phenomenon. Muslims do not. The only power they have is violence, brutality, and surprise in executing their wrath of hate. So that is what they do, and they suffer the consequences of being considered "animals"...
I certainly do not condone this behaviour, but in fact, it is much less efficient in its intention to destroy lives than a slow methodical annihilation of human spirit, integrity, and even basic living foundations such as food, housing, water, etc. That sort of action kills more than missiles, beheadings, and other murderous and inhuman behaviour. And for the most part the rest of the world doesn't notice it. I think even the perpetrators don't notice it. The ones at the very top do, that is their intention. (and I am not pointing at only the Israeli government...it is higher than that. Israel, no doubt, is severely pressured.)
I haven't read as extensively on Islam, but post 9/11 most of the western world were fully aware of the ghastly teachings of wahhibism in particular. Similarly the biblical old testament has been thoroughly critiqued in the context of Christian extremism. I only focus here on the Talmudic area as its very rarely understood or mentioned in the same context.
Also the encouragement of deception seems unique to me. Most other religious texts place importance on honesty and directness. And my hunch is this aspect is pivotal. It's one thing for a wahhabist to declare me an infidel who should die.. I know what I'm dealing with. It's another thing entirely to deal with a Talmudic extremist who secretly believes me to be an animal but will flatter me to my face.
Good point…it seems everyone in these extreme religions wants everyone else to die…at least in theory. It seems the radical Islamists take that theory more literally.
The oppressed learn to oppress. Well said Todd. I have always suspected a Freudian thing here. "The chosen people" upsets the other siblings. Favoritism by God sort of thing. It is all so very ghastly and sad.
"The Chosen Ones" has always been an issue...not something I addressed here.
There is a huge archetypal play being acted out with all of this...I feel a strong empathy for both sides here...the empathy is not of the same quality, but maybe equal. The beast/evil/satan archetype is very present in the Hamas side of things...and there is a "self defense" quality to the hatred from Israelis, but that "self defense" quality is in the Palestinians as well, but more like a wild animal thrashing its way out of a claw trap...they have even been called "human animals"...
https://melaniephillips.substack.com/p/how-israel-tries-to-protect-gazas?
is this for real?
Yes sir. It gets worse-
https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=69009&post_id=138712699&utm_source=post-email-title&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=xga9h&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo1NjE4NzEyNSwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTM4NzEyNjk5LCJpYXQiOjE2OTk0ODU2MDQsImV4cCI6MTcwMjA3NzYwNCwiaXNzIjoicHViLTY5MDA5Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.2Djm7VV44I3pPB62QT9LJ2WV2XD9MVaeuiPkPg3EYKM
“we will drive the Jews into the sea” (there is controversy as to whether any Arab ever said such a thing)
I’ve been thinking about this since you posted it. I’m amazed. That phrase has been used all over the Arab world since before 1948. It HAS been said, and continues to be said. If you haven’t heard it, it hasn’t been said?
Palestinian leaders say one thing in English, and something different in Arabic. They speak to their audience. Just like a position taken by an American politician in public is often not the same position expressed by the same politician at a private dinner-the difference being that if we see the recordings of both events we can hear that difference since we understand the language. But most of the people in the English speaking audience don’t understand Arabic and take the English version as truth.
Here’s something you might want to read.
https://substack.com/redirect/c623b107-3b34-41fa-94f3-d6770e3343dd?
And an article I read this morning-
https://www.dossier.today/p/the-unpopular-truth-surveys-show?
Yes, I’m concerned for the innocent. Apparently, that doesn’t matter. My taxes pay for bombs that have been killing children all over the world for a long time.
But it’s not he says/she says here. It’s deeper than that. And it’s been going on forever. Everywhere. There is no peace for the Jews in this world.
Transfer of abuse is everything you said. But it doesn’t apply here.
I don't doubt those words, or worse, have been spoken by Arab people...and I don't doubt that many feel it without saying it.
This situation in Israel causes a lot of cognitive dissonance for me. On one hand I feel that there is no justification for killing in this way, from either perspective, certainly no justification for killing children under any circumstance. On the other hand I feel humans are compelled to defend themselves, to eradicate potential threat, and to do whatever is necessary to protect themselves. One thing I feel certain of though, even though I doubt if I myself could adhere to this tenet, I do believe human beings are above revenge and vengeance killing. I understand it, but I cannot believe it has a purpose. There needs to be other ways than killing.
I think the situation over there is so complex it is impossible to tell what exactly should be done to stop this hate, whether one side has justification for hate or not.
I am sorry if my article offended you in any way...I was pretty sure it would for some people...there is no stance on this issue that will not cause upset with someone.
My idea was just that, an idea, it could be utterly wrong. However, even after several weeks of reading and listening I still believe there is an unconscious "thing" going on here.
The US plays both sides. Military bases in countries that are supposedly enemies-Cuba, Syria, Iraq. Qatar has a huge American military base and branches of American universities, yet they sponsor Hamas. American “military advisors” are in Ukraine and Israel. Like they were in Korea and Vietnam.
War is a business. It has nothing to do with right and wrong. I think that the provocation is deliberate, with outside governments promising protection to those who act, and then abandoning them. All an act. Why would anybody take sides in something like that? We watch and wonder about the inhumanity. And pray for help.
There is nothing more exciting, fun, invigorating, enjoyable, etc, for nations to engage in war. Tons of money, power wielding, fun boy stuff...like a video game to them.
Never buy any of the fake tears, "up all night worrying about the people who are suffering"...it is all bullshit. This is the ultimate for world leaders...there have been a few that may not have been as seduced by it as most are, I don't know, maybe. But for the majority war has always been the primary reason why people want to rule a country.
And the primary way they continue to rule a country. Afraid of losing the next election? Start a war. It’s standard psychology that people are afraid to change leaders while they perceive themselves to be in danger. But, then, you know that Lol
Preaching to the choir…
Agree
Your theory seems to be bang on. IMOO it goes back further, to Khazaria, when they were so nasty they were taken to task by surrounding countries and made to adopt a religion (probably hoping this would calm the beast). They chose Jewish as being the least restrictive to their way of life. Then they swore vengeance on the ones who forced them, dissed them or otherwise tried to get them to place nice. It happened to be Russia and it’s satellites, not to mention the surrounding muslim/arab/asian/everyone else countries. Oh the poor Ashkenazi jews felt harassed and ostracized so they “went forth and multiplied”, infiltrating all levels of govt/banking in multiple countries. In the “conspiracy” world they’re called the Khazarian mafia. What they went about is similar to the family code of honour type defence and revenge - globally.
About 80% of today’s jewish people around the world are said to be Ashkenazi. The Talmud type are said to be an offshoot, the dark side if you will. And the goyim, all the rest of us, are as cattle to be used and slaughtered.
Generational abuse begetting abuse? Ayup, I think so. Justified? Depends on who you ask. And where/when does it stop?
Disclaimer: I am anti- anyone who bombs/kills another. I don’t care what colour/race/religion. And I do not believe any of it is justified.
Absolutely, right on brother…no one is innocent in this situation…and in all situations like this…no, that’s not true, there are lots of innocent people…the ones doing ANY killing are not innocent…the many that are just trying to live decent lives but get killed for just being there…they are innocent. And all children are innocent…
I thought the Russians chose Christianity over Islam and Judaism, the other choices, because Christians do not require circumcision…No kidding!
Russia did but the Khazars chose Judaism. Russia was the main cop on the beat at the time who did the most to bring the Khazars under control. Tis why they are under the gun more. The Khazars want death to all slavs and slavic cousins for it.
And as far as I know, the Khazars did not do circumcision. They went Jewish in name only. Aaand stole the names and properties of all they killed.
Khazars today are mostly the zionists, different from the everyday Jews.
It is interesting to me how so few people commented on this post. I am curious to know why...any thoughts??
I was one who wasn't going to reply until you posed this question. Don't know if I'm typical but here's my reasons.
I was put off by your characterization of Israeli retaliation against attacks as "transfer of abuse". I see transfer of abuse as, for example, an abused child being prone to abuse others later who have no connection to the abuse he suffered. Israel never seems to lash out until provoked by an attack that hurts them in the moment. Of course there will be collateral damage, innocents will suffer. War is always like that. To avoid collateral damage by refusing to retaliate means suicide. IOW, I don't see the parallel at all.
Of course Israel responds disproportionately. They must. Their enemies would willingly trade a million lives of their own for a million Israeli lives because they outnumber Israelis many times over and have little value for life. They'd love to play the game of proportional response since they could eradicate Israel in short order while hardly noticing a reduction in their own population.
It's complicated. Many think Jews are responsible for many of the ills of the world. Best i can tell, they are over-represented in predatory occupations like finance and banking (those businesses are necessary to modern society but no denying they are often predatory). I consider that a separate issue. I don't see Israel attacking anyone until attacked. I expect them to defend themselves vigorously if attacked. Any prior history, or practices by Soros, Bourla, et al doesn't change that. It seems to me many who want Israel to stand down are biased against it because of Jewish bad actors. Maybe that's OK, it's complicated (to repeat).
I have my opinions but they're not fully informed so I thought I'd stay out of it. Since I could easily be dead wrong best not comment.
Here's the #1 reason I wasn't going to reply. I like your Substack and what you write almost always. I didn't feel like voicing this disagreement. It's OK to disagree on some things. Thought I'd let it go, until you actively solicited. My opinions aren't fully informed anyway, as I said earlier. Only stating them because you specifically asked.
I don't know enough about the complex interactions to post a comment. My input would be quite simplistic as I feel none of it is justified
That makes perfect sense. I actually feel the same way, but was compelled to post what I posted...it is one little idea that doesn't really "take sides" but is an attempt to understand the hatred...it is indeed a very complex situation...the simple part is as you said, none of it is justified, either way.
The abused/abuser dynamic is part of it, but sadly just a small part.
Ron Unz (a Jewish intellectual) deserves great credit for bringing the works of Israel Shahak (also a Jewish academic) to light here (and in several other articles): https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-israel-gaza-and-broader-issues/
I downloaded and read Shahak's book via Unz's site, and - like him - I was profoundly shocked at what I read.
I've concluded much of Talmudic Judaism is essentially a cluster b pathology:
Narcissism: we are gods chosen people
Machiavellianism: it's a mitzvah to deceive a gentile
Psychopathy: a Jewish life is worth more than a gentile
You will no doubt be aghast at these statements, but I urge you to follow, read and learn. Understanding the real nature of things gives us agency.
None of the above BTW is to justify hamas, extreme Islam etc, only to say that by and large very few people understand the deeply embedded culture of hatred at the heart of Talmudic Judaism.
Much as the Jews were indeed treated terribly by nazi Germany amongst many societies, those crimes have been used as camouflage for a particularly toxic religious ideology which the ME conflicts will never be resolved without confronting.
Thank you for this...no, I am not aghast at your statements. I've heard/read this before. But I would have to say Islam is not much different, if not worse (do you not think so?)...they also are "chosen" and anyone outside of their religion, the infidels, should be eliminated (not all Muslims believe this of course).
The difference, in my humble basically uninformed opinion, is that the Jews have money, and they have a privileged spot in the global setting as typically wealthy, well situated in the world's business and banking phenomenon. Muslims do not. The only power they have is violence, brutality, and surprise in executing their wrath of hate. So that is what they do, and they suffer the consequences of being considered "animals"...
I certainly do not condone this behaviour, but in fact, it is much less efficient in its intention to destroy lives than a slow methodical annihilation of human spirit, integrity, and even basic living foundations such as food, housing, water, etc. That sort of action kills more than missiles, beheadings, and other murderous and inhuman behaviour. And for the most part the rest of the world doesn't notice it. I think even the perpetrators don't notice it. The ones at the very top do, that is their intention. (and I am not pointing at only the Israeli government...it is higher than that. Israel, no doubt, is severely pressured.)
I haven't read as extensively on Islam, but post 9/11 most of the western world were fully aware of the ghastly teachings of wahhibism in particular. Similarly the biblical old testament has been thoroughly critiqued in the context of Christian extremism. I only focus here on the Talmudic area as its very rarely understood or mentioned in the same context.
Also the encouragement of deception seems unique to me. Most other religious texts place importance on honesty and directness. And my hunch is this aspect is pivotal. It's one thing for a wahhabist to declare me an infidel who should die.. I know what I'm dealing with. It's another thing entirely to deal with a Talmudic extremist who secretly believes me to be an animal but will flatter me to my face.
Good point…it seems everyone in these extreme religions wants everyone else to die…at least in theory. It seems the radical Islamists take that theory more literally.
The oppressed learn to oppress. Well said Todd. I have always suspected a Freudian thing here. "The chosen people" upsets the other siblings. Favoritism by God sort of thing. It is all so very ghastly and sad.
"The Chosen Ones" has always been an issue...not something I addressed here.
There is a huge archetypal play being acted out with all of this...I feel a strong empathy for both sides here...the empathy is not of the same quality, but maybe equal. The beast/evil/satan archetype is very present in the Hamas side of things...and there is a "self defense" quality to the hatred from Israelis, but that "self defense" quality is in the Palestinians as well, but more like a wild animal thrashing its way out of a claw trap...they have even been called "human animals"...